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From Rd Engine

[edit] International problem

I am adding the Dutch Royal family, and after a few generations, I come to nl:Johannes Stephanus Sliedregt (Sliedregt, b. 3 September 1873), Anna Paulowna, who is from Russian Descent. I know I should put her Clan in her own language, but I don't know the letters. Help? This could become a nice test for internationally connected family ties! Rob Hooft 17:54, 26 March 2006 (EEST)

• True value for clan = Romanov (Romanovy). True surname = Romanova (Romanova). Anna (Anna) is a name, Pawlovna (Pavlovna) - is a something like a name suffix that generated only from father's name. (Father name - Pavel (Pavel) => dother Anna Pavlovna (Anna Pavlovna), Katrin Pavlovna (Ekaterina Pavlovna), sons: Vladimir Pavlovich (Vladimir Pavlovich), Sergey Pavlovich (Sergej Pavlovich) etc). You can use clan value not only in native language. If clan value translated person will be shown under all possible clan values into surnames list. --Baya 19:31, 26 March 2006 (EEST)

Thanks! Rob Hooft 22:19, 27 March 2006 (EEST)

[edit] Elections in Ukraine!

The elections in Ukraine were on the news in the Netherlands today. Predictions were that the existing government got less votes. There are similarities between the Netherlands and Ukraine! In both countries, there are many political parties that need proper discussion before forming a coalition government. This is good for democracy. I wish the politicians insprired days! Rob Hooft 22:19, 27 March 2006 (EEST)

[edit] Clan

In the Netherlands (and other North-European Countries) family names were not common in the countryside, the kids of a father became his name as patronym (I think in Iceland we have up to today this situation) example the son of Jan was called Jansen (thats why my familyname became Jansen in 1811). The patronym Jansen was very common in the Netherlands and also northern Germany. These patronyms doesnt relate to one singular clan at all. I would prefer to put the place of origin into the clan-field, which means there where we found our oldest roots in the direct paternal line. In Switzerland we have a 'Heimatort' where the families are administrated and originally descent from. To make the clan-field useful there is a need for more distinguishing. --Kjansen 11:24, 6 April 2006 (EEST)

• We discussed this on Rodovid NL a bit. I think the situation is like a "disambiguation" on Wikipedia. The format of the Clan could be treated the way Klaas suggested: Add the place of origin to the Clan, between brackets, after the last name. How do others feel? It "violates" the idea that the "Clan" is the part of the surname that is passed on between generations, but without disambiguation these clan names become useless. "Jansen" is one of the most common surnames in the Netherlands. Rob Hooft 12:23, 6 April 2006 (EEST)

• To divide different lines of Ryurik's descendants by tradition them assigned to diffeternt clans (?), Ruriks of Murom, Ruriks of Kiev, Ruriks of Smolenks etc. Of course Jansen, Ivanov, Jonson and other similar surnames are VERY popular and its clans will be a largest into db. Only advanced search (by name, surname, events, places) will help users in this situation. --Baya 15:17, 6 April 2006 (EEST)

• Now I'm interested how Rodovid will be used in Iceland. There probably won't be any data from Iceland in the database, too bad. We are having a discussion about the insufficient clan-thing, to prevent we're getting very, very large clans, which will make the database complicated. But when somebody from Iceland is going to add his data, that user will get stuck by the first person!

My contributions to this problem (and, sort of, a summary):

1.) It is a pity to edit all the inserted pages to add a suffix to the clan (e.g. Jansen --> Jansen - Amsterdam).

2.) As an user, you have to be very sure that your person you would like to add, don't have any links with the clan, which the existing clan. In case the user finds out 'in the end' of adding data, there will be the same as described in problem #1.

3.) It is too bad that it is a fact that more in former days the people gave there kids a patronym. It is true that two people with exactly the same surname can have very different genes. Again, I refer to Iceland. In my opinion, there won't be a solution for this kind of problems. There is an option to add a number to the clan, like 'Jansen #1', 'Jansen #2', but that wouldn't be fair and again, I refer to problem #1. ThePhoenix (Rodovid_NL)

But would it not be much more useful then to make an "official" way of dividing these clans? Especially since (at least in the Dutch case) these people do not share their genes? I really think that "Rurik (Kiev)" and "Rurik (Murom)" would help here. Rob Hooft 09:22, 8 April 2006 (EEST)

• Of course. In english «Rurik (Murom)» is better, in russian «Ryurikovichi Muromskie». It is language traditions - not more. Main goal of any actions is usability and reality. --Baya 10:16, 8 April 2006 (EEST)

If this is done, I think it would be good to change the possibility of looking for a clan so that people from the clan "Janssen (Amsterdam II)" are also found when looking for the clan "Janssen". Otherwise, we run the risk of people being twice or more in the database under different versions of the same clan. - Engels 18:22, 8 June 2006 (EEST)

[edit] Is possible to copy data from engine.rodovid.org to en.rodovid.org ?

Hi!
Sorry, only today I see the message at top of page, that this engine.rodovid.org is just for TEST... :-(
Yesterday, I registered ALL my family in this engine... :-(
Is possible to copy my data to en.rodovid.org ? Thanks. Morais 18:11, 10 February 2006 (EET)

• Unfortunatly no. After you add so many data, I add this big message on every page of this project. Unfortunatly, now it is impossible to move data from engine db to real one. Of course I can write something for importing data from here to real db, but I think that you add your data in real db more quickly. By the way, I recommend to you add your language, due to at this time person added in different languages are not searchable throw standard MediaWiki engine. But, of course, you can find ALL persons in Surnames List it any time. Don't carry, make you language subdivision :)
• During importing you don't set clan value for any person. So your trees are grey.... --Baya 20:39, 10 February 2006 (EET)

• Ok, thanks a lot ! :-)
  I will copy all data from here to rodovid today or tomorrow !
  I will find what is CLAN and change this on copy to other site... :-)
  You saw to me use my language... sorry... Am I need to use pt.rodovid.org... create my language... or only select my language in combo of new people ? Morais 22:35, 10 February 2006 (EET)

[edit] Record edit does not require email confirmation?

Why is permited an user login BEFORE confirm their email address ? :-(
I think that only registered users, with email valid and confirmed, could be enter or change data in all projects of Wiki, as in the WikiPedia now!, including the Rodovid...
The WikiTree has many SPAM and trash inserted in pages by anonymous (IP) or non-confirmed email for registered users...
What do you think about ? Morais 08:10, 12 February 2006 (EET)

• 1.5.6 MediaWiki does not support this... :( I think developers add this into nearest version, if not, I recode this. --Baya 16:47, 13 February 2006 (EET)

[edit] Anonymous edits

This week in pt.rodovid an anonymous added new records! In RecentChanges was registered only their IP ADDRESS and not their username... :-( Is it correct ? Morais 23:59, 24 February 2006 (EET)

• I turn off necessery registration for adding people for some time, if its give to us many problems I turn on it again. Please translate some especially about record fields. I see in logs that people request this page very offen but in PT its is empty ((( --Baya 00:53, 25 February 2006 (EET)

[edit] Logo

Hi!
Do you like of this image ?
http://www.wikitree.org/images/1/19/Mysha.png

Why don't change actual flower by this ? :-) Morais 04:29, 11 February 2006 (EET)

• At this time Rodovod is not a WikiTree ((( We must resolve this problem before use a logo of WikiTree. --Baya 13:03, 11 February 2006 (EET)

• Yeah you're right. I think we should merge the two products together. Personally, I prefer the name Wikitree. What does the name Rodovid mean and would you mind it changing.--Bjwebb 16:40, 12 February 2006 (EET)

• Hello, je pense que Rodovod est un Arbre-wiki, et que un arbre en remplacement de la fleur est suffisant comme logo Stephvvv 23:38, 18 April 2006 (EEST)

• Interesting comment by Stephvvv. Here's a rough translation for those who don't know French.

Hello, I think that Rodovid is a tree-wiki, and that a tree to replace the flower is sufficient for the logo.

Thanks for your traduct. And... Je suis ravi, et j'ajouterai que si un nom peut ou devrait ètre donné pour completer ce logo, ce ne pourais etre que quelque chose comme "Ancestree" qui fait référence à la traduction de Rodovid avec toute les possibilités d'accords de *en *ru *uk etc.... Mais si Baya dit que "Rodovod is not a WikiTree", alors qu'est-ce? Votre outil est magnifique et pour ma part, j'y contriburai au maximum.

Personnellement, j'aime bien "Rodovid". Cela sonne comme "Une Ronde". Please see this images for you [[1]] [[2]] Stephvvv

• I have remake tree logo with the SVG source: [[3]]. --NiZoX 00:42, 21 April 2006 (EEST)

Logo size must be: width = 135 pixels and height = 135 pixels. --195.137.203.26 10:43, 21 April 2006 (EEST)

• À la demande de Bjwebb, j'ai fait une version "wikitree" du logo Rodovid: ici --NiZoX 21:40, 23 April 2006 (EEST)

8Thanks, I think the 'Wikitree' logo looks good. It would be better if the image was square though, in order to fit the logo box better. As anon says ideally it should be 135*135--Bjwebb 15:52, 24 April 2006 (EEST)

• Rodovid logo 135 px version here and Wikitree logo 135 px version here. --NiZoX 00:41, 25 April 2006 (EEST)

[edit] Open Source

Help:FAQ#Opening_Source?

[edit] "Add Person"=

This "Engine" website is supposed to be a testing website. But unlike the local-language versions, it is missing "Add Person" in the margins. That is the most important link for someone who wants to try this! Please add it! Testing 09:42, 29 October 2006 (EET)

[edit] Attention All Sysops

Per [4], rollback and undelete have been disabled due to bugs in the new engine. Wikiacc (talk) 03:59, 22 June 2007 (EEST)

[edit] Lineage template

I've added a template to show information about lineages: en:Lineage:Nassau-Weilburg is my example. It is generally designed with royal houses in mind but would work equally well with other lineages. Please comment, and if you have anything to add to the template please do. (Technical note: The customizability is done via the hiddenStructure CSS parameter, if you add a new line please include it.) --Wikiacc (talk) 22:55, 2 October 2007 (EEST)

For another example see en:Lineage:Habsburg. Wikiacc (talk) 22:04, 8 October 2007 (EEST)

[edit] Fatal errors raised by engine

Since yesterday I've been getting fatal errors coming from rodovid, regardless of whether I'm on a language part of the engine or on engine.rodovid.org
The error comes up as a storage error and there is a full debug dump with SQL statements and stack traces. If it comes up again, I'll copy it and paste here but, I hope it doesn't.
In any case, I was wondering what happened which brings me to the next question of backups and disaster recovery. Has that been addressed and how? --Kimon^talk 15:17, 26 March 2008 (EET)

• Thank you for info. If you will get same errors again, please copy info to bugzilla, or just to me privately, don't put it here. About backups. Database server and image store is running on machine with RAID. Every day database backed up on other machine. Daily backups is storing during seven days. Backups for 1,7,14,28 days of month is storing during one month. Backups for 1 day of month is storing during seven month. Currently all backups (without images) takes 2,4 GB. --Baya 19:04, 26 March 2008 (EET)

Ok, will do and thanks for the info on the DR setup. Perhaps the whole setup can be described in Rd Engine:About.

On another note, is the software running this site open source? --Kimon^talk 14:57, 27 March 2008 (EET)

Currently no --Baya 21:51, 27 March 2008 (EET)

Are there plans to make it open source? --Kimon^talk 21:54, 27 March 2008 (EET)

Now this is just a my dream --Baya 14:35, 29 March 2008 (EET)

I'd be willing to contribute if it ever did become open source. This is an outstanding project. Good work! --Kimon^talk 17:59, 29 March 2008 (EET)

[edit] GEDCOM export of full tree

Is there a way to generate a GEDCOM export of a person's full tree? --Kimon^talk 16:14, 29 March 2008 (EET)

• Under construction --Baya 17:53, 29 March 2008 (EET)
  • Waiting impatiently :) --Kimon^talk 17:59, 29 March 2008 (EET)

[edit] Finding relations

I'd like some comment on my proposals over at Bugzilla for finding relations between people. A method for finding common ancestors between two given people: find all intersections between the two wk:Ahnentafeln (Bug 78), then throw out all the redundant people (parents of common ancestors, etc.) using a formula. (Bug 105) Using these common ancestors, determine the number of generations between the ancestor and the two given people, then use that to calculate relationship and generate a tree. (Bug 22) Applications include a special page to find the relation between people, and a method of calculating the coefficient of inbreeding, which can get quite high for royal trees. (Bug 103)

All this, of course, depends on a technical fix to designate which parents are biological, a feature that was present in the 0.1 engine but was removed in 0.2. --Wikiacc (≈) 21:23, 18 May 2008 (EEST)

This would be a great feature! I'd love to see this implemented in the future! --Kimon^talk 22:34, 18 May 2008 (EEST)

[edit] Has Rodovid a future?

What is the future for this site? Will there be futher development or is this it? In my opinion there is a lot of potential but it is not really getting of the ground. Are there suggestions how to get more momentum and get others to share their data on rodovid? Should there be perhaps more collaboration with other sites if possible? Regards, Svdmolen 00:04, 20 October 2008 (EEST)

There will definitely be further development. Baya's been a bit short on time lately, but a re-enabling of the GEDCOM import is in the pipeline, as is GEDCOM export. Those will allow many more records to be brought into Rodovid and give the database greater comprehensiveness and make it more useful, and it will make Rodovid more usable for professional genealogists. As for momentum, any promotion of Rodovid and encouragement of people to use Rodovid is welcome; some of our lapsed users will probably return once GEDCOM import returns. There was a plan for collaboration with http://www.werelate.org through merging the databases, but that never came to fruition; a plan for merging with http://www.wikitree.org has been in the works since 2006--everyone involved has spoken highly of the idea, and Baya has been developing a method of importing WikiTree records into Rodovid--but nobody has been able to track down WikiTree's founder to get negotiations moving. There was also a proposal years ago to make Rodovid a Wikimedia project, which faltered for lack of interest. --Wikiacc (≈) 02:23, 20 October 2008 (EEST)

Suggestion relating to the propsed Wikimedia project: include timelines of bibliography, innovation and language. Bibliography and innovation would give an extra link to persons on the tree and provide extra non-specialised traffic. There are other proposals on Meta for those topics but again with less support than wikifamily. Pool them all together as a sort of timeline of humanity (they are all good project ideas). RTG 23:11, 7 November 2008 (EET)